Help with allin conversion 50-70

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King carp
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:43 am

Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by King carp » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:01 am

Hello to the forum: i have aquired 50-70 trapdoor springfield. My question has to do with it not ejecting a spent cartridge. The brass is marked 50-70 dixie. These look unused and came with the rifle. I put an empty case in the chamber and it will not eject. It looks like the rim is too small? Maybe the extractor is worn? It leaves a mark on the case. If i press in the tab on the bottom of the chamber the empty kicks out. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks, KC
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butlersrangers
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm

Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by butlersrangers » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:46 am

'King Carp' - It appears to me that too much of the working area of your 'extractor' tip is chipped-off.

IIRC - The extractor starts the movement of the cartridge case from the chamber, where it is held in place by a notched stud, (that is part of the Friction Spring attached to the bottom of the action).

Rearward movement of the case, by the extractor, overcomes the hold of the Friction Spring.

A second spring then comes into play. The tip on the tensioned ("horse-shoe" shaped) ejector/spring propels the case reward, into an inclined stud, located at the inside-rear of the action. This stud deflects the case out of the action.

I imagine your extractor could be built-up by brazing and restored to it original shape and contour.

If your chamber is severely worn or honed 'overly large', creating a loose chamber fit, it would likely add to the 'extractor problem'.

Memory tells me that the 'Dixie' Brass, (from Dixie Gun Works, Union City, Tenn.), was made by the same company that made reproduction "Old Reliable' Brass, in the late 1960's and early 1970's. I think it was made in Belgium and I don't recall hearing about problems, except that, it was hard to get and on PERPETUAL BACKORDER!

I will haul out my 2nd Allen Conversion tomorrow and take some pictures of the 'extractor'.
Last edited by butlersrangers on Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

King carp
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Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:43 am

Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by King carp » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:14 am

Thanks B.R.: A worn extractor sounds right. I measured the rim diameter of a case and it came up in spec. I would appreciate a pic of your extractor if you get a chance to post it. I wonder if i could drill and add a pin filed to shape instead of heating up the breach block?
Thanks again, KC

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butlersrangers
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Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by butlersrangers » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:07 am

'King Carp' - Looking at your photos again, it appears there is not a good fit of the cartridge rim to the 'shoulder' for the rim in your chamber. Sure you don't have a .58 caliber Allin conversion? (It might just be an illusion; the photos are pretty fuzzy).

My D.G.W. marked .50-70 Brass has these dimensions:

Rim Diameter = .662" / Rim Thickness = .065" to .067" / Case Head Diameter = .562"

I have had this Brass since about 1978; my case-rims fit the chamber close and without slop.

Viewing the extractor (lobe) that is part of the breech-block 'knuckle', while slowly swinging the block 'open' (with an empty chamber), the extractor-lobe neatly fills the slot that is machined for it in the rear of the chamber/rim area. (This is a good gauge of its proper size).

I hope "Captain Hosmer" comes on board for this thread. He wrote "The Book".

Attached are some 'flash' photos that might be helpful:
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Allin66-1.jpg
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Allin66-Hosmer.jpg
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King carp
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:43 am

Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by King carp » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:07 pm

I checked and am pretty sure it is a 50-70 and not a .58 cal. I think the chamber is worn. There is some play with the case in the chamber. I am going to return the rifle to the seller. We talked and he agreed there is something wrong with it. Thank you for your help on this.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by butlersrangers » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:09 pm

'King Carp' - I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. The 1866 2nd Allin Conversion is a neat historic arm. No point in buying one to shoot that appears to have chamber/extraction issues that will disappoint and frustrate.

I am attaching some pictures, shot today in Sunlight.
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Allin Conversion - Mod. 1866.jpg
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allin-66-friction spring1.jpg
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Last edited by butlersrangers on Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

King carp
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:43 am

Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by King carp » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:01 pm

Thanks Butlers Rangers for the clear pics. I know what to look for now. Thats a fine looking 50-70. I have a couple 45-70's that i really like. I hope to find a nice 50-70 someday to add to the set. Thanks again, KC

Whig
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Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by Whig » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:06 am

I read where experienced soldiers could fire off up to 15 rounds a minute in their old Springfields! That's a lot of fast reloading and probably lots of good old fashioned black powder smoke from that kind of shooting. Lots of lead flying from those old monsters.

I've shot my 45-70 Springfield a few times and it's wonderful. Don't have enough ammo loaded up for more right now but I'll get there someday.

Nice pictures. Thanks for posting.

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Parashooter
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Location: NE Connecticut

Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by Parashooter » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 pm

Sights on my 1868 are definitely a challenge -
1868target.jpg
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King carp
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Re: Help with allin conversion 50-70

Post by King carp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:50 pm

I did notice quite the difference in sights between the 50-70 i am returning and my 1884 ramrod bayonet 45-70. Nice shooting by the way parashooter!

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