1899 Krag Carbine

U.S. Military Krags
63cagedfalcon
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:00 pm

1899 Krag Carbine

Post by 63cagedfalcon » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:27 pm

First post, I'm Paul.
I collect military & space/ NASA items. This is my latest find.

This little guy followed me home today.
I do believe this to be an original constabulary carbine due to all traits below.

Serial # 344642, 1899 marked, sights marked up to 23 & C marked, 22" barrel, full stock, lack of cartouche, bayonet lug & step-down barrel.

Bolt stamped X,S,8,H,F, lower band U, rack #45. No cartouche noted but it may have been refinished but he said only linseed oil.


I did pull action out but didn't disturb the handguard to document other stamps.

Also measurements of cut down area for bayonet compared to barrel.

According to the previous owner, it has been in the family since 1903. Buy the gun, not the story.

Just discovered pics are to large, tried twice, still to large. Providing a link to Imgur below


Thanks for looking
Comments welcome,Paul

https://imgur.com/a/HPbL7Ca

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butlersrangers
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by butlersrangers » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:29 pm

63cagedfalcon/Paul: Welcome to the KCA forum.

Your Krag model 1899, #344642, was originally assembled a Springfield Armory, as a cavalry carbine, around September 1901.

The modification of Krag carbines into "U.S. Magazine Carbine, caliber .30, model of 1899, altered for knife bayonet and gun sling" did not begin until 1906.

This was not a U.S. military weapon, but, a modification that was done for the Philippine Constabulary (police force) and for various private military academies (school rifles).

The modifications are believed to have been done at Springfield Armory, Manila Ordnance Depot, Rock Island Arsenal, and maybe Benicia Arsenal from 1906 to 1915.

Most carbines issued to the Philippine Constabulary were likely destroyed, after replaced by 1903 Springfield rifles. The identical 'School Rifles' survive in some numbers.

Your Krag has definite model 1899 carbine parts, (the action, barrel, hand-guard and sights).

Your stock is more problematic, because it has been heavily 'sanded' and refinished. If there were appropriate "cartouche" or inspection marks, they appear to be gone.

Close and clear photos of your front barrel-band and stock 'tip' could give further clues, via the fit and quality of workmanship.

Be advised, lots of fake 'PC Carbines' and crude 'School Rifles' have been turned out by merchants and charlatans!
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a possible Krag PC.jpg
a possible Krag PC.jpg (41.84 KiB) Viewed 131 times
Last edited by butlersrangers on Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dick Hosmer
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by Dick Hosmer » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:47 pm

Interesting thing just happened.

I just typed a rather lengthy reply (apparently almost simultaneous with Chuck, and saying almost exactly the same thing) and when I tried to post it, got a dialog box I've never seen before - something to the effect that "someone has already responded to this, which may affect whether or not you wish to continue". And, to add to the mystery, poof - mine was gone. I'm not going to reconstruct it - but - what's afoot here?

AFAIK, those arch-fiends Bezos and Zuckerberg are not (yet) in control of our board.

One point Chuck (BR) did not cover is the lack of bevel on the bayonet lug.

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butlersrangers
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by butlersrangers » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:51 pm

Dick - I would sure like to read your observations!

63cagedfalcon
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by 63cagedfalcon » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:21 am

Ok, a school gun, maybe. Is there a increased value over a standard carbine? Unable to find a good reference online.
Thanks

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butlersrangers
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by butlersrangers » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:25 am

It is tricky to put an accurate value on a 'School Rifle'.

IMHO - They can be a treacherous investment, because it is very muddy water!

There are a lot of imitation ones. "Cut-Down" rifles were long billed as "Philippine Constabulary Carbines", by unscrupulous sellers. 'School Rifles' can be hard to identify and the condition is usually not great.

The demand for 'School Rifles' is likely not as great as for standard U.S. military rifles and carbines. The school guns don't really have a significant history, (real P.C. rifles, excepted).

I imagine for many Krag collectors, a School Rifle is not of much interest until after more significant "collection slots" are filled.
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Last edited by butlersrangers on Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

63cagedfalcon
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by 63cagedfalcon » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:32 am

butlersrangers wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:25 am
IMHO - It is tricky to put an accurate value on a 'School Rifle'.

They can be a treacherous investment, because it is muddy water!

There are a lot of imitation ones. "Cut-Down" rifles were long billed as "Philippine Constabulary Carbines", by unscrupulous sellers. 'School Rifles' can be hard to identify and the condition is usually not great.

The demand for 'School Rifles' is likely not as great as for standard U.S. military rifles and carbines. The school guns don't really have a significant history, (real P.C. rifles, excepted).

I imagine for many Krag collectors, a School Rifle is not of much interest until after more significant "collection slots" are filled.


















t
Thanks to you & other that took time to explain rather then just say "it's not!".

Always on the hunt, Paul

FredC
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by FredC » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Dick Hosmer, I am not sure what caused the loss of your original post but I have been fighting the Spamhaus rejections. On the last couple of posts i have resorted to typing a reply in my email account and copying and pasting it here after several attempts to get past Spamhaus. I have to reset my modem several times to get a clean IP address that is not blacklisted. Your lost post seems to be for entirely different reasons, but the same solution could save the loss of a lengthy post. Or copying you post then paste it back after getting in and out of KCA might work also. Looks like I maybe the only one dealing with this Spamhaus issue, evidently a block of T-Mobile IP addresses have been black listed and no repairs to my PC will help.

Whig
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by Whig » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:24 pm

This new format has been difficult to work with- old posts are deleted or unable to be found, pictures from old posts are gone, new posts are sometimes hard to make, etc. I used to frequently connect new posts I made referencing older posts and pictures I spent hours taking and uploading and researching. Now, I can't do that. They're gone or impossible to find.

This "New" format has caused me to lose interest in posting and reading posts here. I still do a little of it but, if anyone has noticed, there are only half a dozen or fewer regular posters. Sorry but changes have consequences. One of the big problems was that the forum was offline for, what, 6 months? People have gone elsewhere, as have I, to get my milsurp fix.

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butlersrangers
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Re: 1899 Krag Carbine

Post by butlersrangers » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:50 pm

The long period of "no KCA forum" was very frustrating.

When things started 'back up', parts of the new format were very difficult. I finally had to log-off and set a new 'pass-word'.

I now find it much easier to locate old posts and subjects using the new search-feature.

You Gentlemen are much more tech savvy, than I am!

Please stay involved.

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